Week 4. Sermon title – Job part 4 - God answers Job 38-41- sat 1121am
The series ends
Our problems don’t
Ways we hope to address problems
Human wisdom
Job wants answers. (we want answers)
Finally God speaks.
• Highlights His unlimited wisdom/power.
• Highlights Job’s limited wisdom/power.
Are we really as smart as we think
1500 Copernicus put an end to the age of the flat earth
The earth as the center of the solar system
Issac Newton 1700 – laws of physics
An object at rest…….
Einstein in the 40s and 50s broke new ground
Newton’s laws don’t explain it all
Theory of relativity
Father of modern physics-opened the door to quantum physics
An international team of scientists said on Thursday that they had recorded sub atomic particles traveling faster than light- a finding that could overturn one of Einstein’s long accepted fundamental laws of the universe. That the speed of light is a constant and nothing moves faster..
The end of the age of Einstein
Human wisdom is never going to manage or control this world
So some opt for option two
A god that fixes everything
Is really a god of human wisdom
If god loves us he will fix everything, he will save us from pain
Noted religious leader on tv a few weeks ago. The problems in America point to the end of time. To Jesus return
We don’t want to live thru problems. We want god to save us from them.
Part of us wants to worship at the home of the god of easy answers
Ultimately this god is a god of our own making
Some suggest that the answer to our problems is to stop asking questions
Sometimes the church demands that we have blind faith
Don’t ask questions
Don’t question anything
Don’t challenge the pastor
Don’t challenge the word- whose interpretation?
This is tough on our brains – we don’t want to be crushed
It feels manipulative
It feels like the inquisition
The world is rejecting this form of Christianity
God is not offended by our questions
As an answer to our questions, god offers himself
God offers himself.
Not the god of easy answers
Not the god who does not take questions
But the amazing giant, mysterious God
The get lost in the wonder god… the fall into his arms god
In the presence of god we humans melt
Paul on the road
Isaiah in the throne room
Moses before the burning bush
There is a place where we go and we are with something so much bigger than we are, that our questions are swallowed up
Parents comfort their children, god puts his arms around you
Going to have lunch with my dad
At 70, he wanted to go sit at his parents table
God is Transcendent:
God knows everything about each one of His creations.
He is with them all. The raven, the lion, the mountain goat, the ostrich, etc.
He knows when they eat and when they sleep. He knows where they live and when they give birth.
He knows us.
Does not mean that we won’t suffer, but that God is with us.
Shawn f quote - When we come to the end of ourselves, it is not the end.
Psalm 16- in your presence there is fullness of joy
16:11 you make known to me the path of life. You will fill me with joy in your presence, with eternal pleasures at your right hand.
Wendy to close with testimony
Showing posts with label Job. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Job. Show all posts
Tuesday, September 27, 2011
Wednesday, September 21, 2011
Responses to Suffering - Your Only Human Job 3:11-26 9-18-2011
Sermon 9-18-11 responses to suffering – you’re only human Job 3:11-26
11 “Why did I not perish at birth, and die as I came from the womb? 12 Why were there knees to receive me and breasts that I might be nursed? 13 For now I would be lying down in peace; I would be asleep and at rest 14 with kings and rulers of the earth, who built for themselves places now lying in ruins,-- 15 with princes who had gold, who filled their houses with silver. 16 Or why was I not hidden away in the ground like a stillborn child, like an infant who never saw the light of day? 17 There the wicked cease from turmoil, and there the weary are at rest. 18 Captives also enjoy their ease; they no longer hear the slave driver’s shout. 19 The small and the great are there, and the slaves are freed from their owners. 20 “Why is light given to those in misery, and life to the bitter of soul, 21 to those who long for death that does not come, who search for it more than for hidden treasure,-- 22 who are filled with gladness and rejoice when they reach the grave? 23 Why is life given to a man whose way is hidden, whom God has hedged in? 24 For sighing has become my daily food; my groans pour out like water. 25 What I feared has come upon me; what I dreaded has happened to me. 26 I have no peace, no quietness; I have no rest, but only turmoil.”
Job the series
Last week – Im sorry, I love you, I stand with you.
Today- our responses to suffering
Job is depressed- no peace, only turmoil
Large suffering or small, this is our story
1. Anger from job’s wife – 2:9
9 His wife said to him, “Are you still maintaining your integrity? Curse God and die!” 10 He replied, “You are talking like a foolish[b] woman. Shall we accept good from God, and not trouble?”
2. Some people fall into self pity
Self pity itself can destroy you
Seeing yourself as a victim
Some people never live again
Becoming embittered so that the love in us is soured into envy and hate
3. Some live in denial and refuse to face reality
If I shut my eyes long enough
I don’t want to talk about it
numb
Drown sorrows in self medication
You never face the pain
You never learn from the pain
Your rob yourself of your life –life is good
4. Some people bargain with God and demand a miracle ...
god I have been faithful, pls fix this.
Quote scriptures and scripture promise books
God I have done this for you, so you must do this for me
God if you fix this, I will do such and such
5. Lose your faith
"I cry to you and you give me no answer; I stand before you but you take no notice" (Job 30:20).
As long as we expect God to make life easy, we are going to respond to suffering in ways that show the worst of us. There is another way……
Learning
Our tragedy is not that we suffer, but that we waste suffering
Anthony Bloom, a doctor before becoming a priest, spoke of a young woman who was dying of cancer. Despite great pain, she refused to take drugs to alleviate her suffering. She said that the time had not yet come. Then one day she called him and said she was now ready for the drugs. She had now learned everything that pain had to teach her, and she could go in peace.
Our culture has a great desire to escape suffering
• We need to understand tho that suffering like everything else, is related to our journey towards God.
• When we escape suffering we may lose a chance to understand something of great importance for ourselves and, consequently, for others.
Suffering can help our relationship with God.
C.S. Lewis wrote that pain is God's megaphone to arouse us from our deafness. It is only when we are afraid or bewildered, aware of our own helplessness, that we turn to God. If we are to be re-made, re-born, turned around, we must be first broken into pieces:
Think of people that have come to Jesus. How did you come to him?
Suffering gets us in touch with our soul
It is the source of great poetry, music, art and the great discoveries of life.It is in sorrow that we can look into ourselves and find God.
Suffering can help our relationships with others
We can only gain from suffering if we use the opportunity to grow in compassion and understanding, to become more sensitive to the needs of others.
Are we here for pleasure, or to care for one another, love one another, and comfort one another?
"Help carry one another's burdens; in that way you will fulfill the law of Christ" (Gal 6:2).
2cor 1:3-
3 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of compassion and the God of all comfort, 4 who comforts us in all our troubles, so that we can comfort those in any trouble with the comfort we ourselves receive from God. 5 For just as we share abundantly in the sufferings of Christ, so also our comfort abounds through Christ. 6 If we are distressed, it is for your comfort and salvation; if we are comforted, it is for your comfort, which produces in you patient endurance of the same sufferings we suffer. 7 And our hope for you is firm, because we know that just as you share in our sufferings, so also you share in our comfort.
That there is some therapeutic value in suffering is obvious. When our own need is great, to whom do we turn? To the person for whom life has always been easy? Or to the one who has been buffeted by more than one storm?
Choices
When do you pray for something to get better and when do you choose to accept it as a part of the world that is yours to deal with?
We cannot choose to not suffer
But we can choose to let tribulation have its work James
Human beings can be carried to the height of redemption only after passing through the valley of despair.
We do not suffer in order to become other than who we are, but to become the real persons lying dormant within us.
It all depends on ourselves. The suffering that produced a Beethoven or a Helen Keller could also produce a snivelling weakling riddled with self-pity.
Two people suffer the same anguish: one is destroyed, the other enriched!
One is caught in one's own turmoil and withers; the other searches more deeply and finds profound meaning –
Woman in the wheelchair
Having broken her neck, she was completely paralyzed, without feeling or skin sensation from the shoulders down. She looked after herself in her own flat (it took her two hours to get dressed), drove across London each day and did a nine to five-thirty job, after which she was too exhausted to do anything but sleep. She rejoiced in her independence, "For me it is the most wonderful and unbelievable thing. Every morning when I wake up, I think, another day! I've made it!" To find hope and joy in the midst of affliction, -- that is the ultimate achievement of faith.
Something amazing about those who have learned not just to endure, but to grow thru suffering…..
Among many of the survivors of the camps, one meets this tremendous inner strength, this indestructible human spirit. Such survivors seem to have passed beyond hatred and bitterness because they saw where the hatred and bitterness led. They are linked together by a powerful bond and mutual compassion. I shall never forget the woman I met in Warsaw at a party for survivors of Auschwitz and Buchenwald. Suddenly she turned to me and said sadly, "I wasn't there; but I wish to God I had been. I'm on the outside. Do you understand?"
found on the body of a dead child at Ravensbruck camp where 92,000 women and children died:
O God, remember not only the men and women of good will, but also those of ill will. But do not remember all the suffering they have inflicted upon us; remember the fruits we have bought, thanks to this suffering -- our comradeship, our loyalty, our humility, our courage, our generosity, the greatness of heart which has grown out of all this, and when they come to the judgment let all the fruits that we have borne be their forgiveness.
Natural responses. Anger, fear, self pity, denial.
All of this is ok, all of this is normal. God is not offended by our humanness.
But he also invites us to aspire to rise above our humanness
The cross points the way
At the centre of all that God is offering us, the cross stands as a commentary -- the historical sign that Jesus fully shared our human situation.
"I, if I be lifted up, will draw all people to myself" (Jn 12:32).
If we stand in spirit at the foot of the cross, we can see that all the sorrow in the world is gathered together into one sorrow; and there, in the moment of seeming utter defeat, the victory over sorrow is complete.
In your suffering I turn you away from your feelings. Away from your self. Away from magical answers to the pain and I turn you toward Jesus. The man of the cross. And together we join hands, one with another……
11 “Why did I not perish at birth, and die as I came from the womb? 12 Why were there knees to receive me and breasts that I might be nursed? 13 For now I would be lying down in peace; I would be asleep and at rest 14 with kings and rulers of the earth, who built for themselves places now lying in ruins,-- 15 with princes who had gold, who filled their houses with silver. 16 Or why was I not hidden away in the ground like a stillborn child, like an infant who never saw the light of day? 17 There the wicked cease from turmoil, and there the weary are at rest. 18 Captives also enjoy their ease; they no longer hear the slave driver’s shout. 19 The small and the great are there, and the slaves are freed from their owners. 20 “Why is light given to those in misery, and life to the bitter of soul, 21 to those who long for death that does not come, who search for it more than for hidden treasure,-- 22 who are filled with gladness and rejoice when they reach the grave? 23 Why is life given to a man whose way is hidden, whom God has hedged in? 24 For sighing has become my daily food; my groans pour out like water. 25 What I feared has come upon me; what I dreaded has happened to me. 26 I have no peace, no quietness; I have no rest, but only turmoil.”
Job the series
Last week – Im sorry, I love you, I stand with you.
Today- our responses to suffering
Job is depressed- no peace, only turmoil
Large suffering or small, this is our story
1. Anger from job’s wife – 2:9
9 His wife said to him, “Are you still maintaining your integrity? Curse God and die!” 10 He replied, “You are talking like a foolish[b] woman. Shall we accept good from God, and not trouble?”
2. Some people fall into self pity
Self pity itself can destroy you
Seeing yourself as a victim
Some people never live again
Becoming embittered so that the love in us is soured into envy and hate
3. Some live in denial and refuse to face reality
If I shut my eyes long enough
I don’t want to talk about it
numb
Drown sorrows in self medication
You never face the pain
You never learn from the pain
Your rob yourself of your life –life is good
4. Some people bargain with God and demand a miracle ...
god I have been faithful, pls fix this.
Quote scriptures and scripture promise books
God I have done this for you, so you must do this for me
God if you fix this, I will do such and such
5. Lose your faith
"I cry to you and you give me no answer; I stand before you but you take no notice" (Job 30:20).
As long as we expect God to make life easy, we are going to respond to suffering in ways that show the worst of us. There is another way……
Learning
Our tragedy is not that we suffer, but that we waste suffering
Anthony Bloom, a doctor before becoming a priest, spoke of a young woman who was dying of cancer. Despite great pain, she refused to take drugs to alleviate her suffering. She said that the time had not yet come. Then one day she called him and said she was now ready for the drugs. She had now learned everything that pain had to teach her, and she could go in peace.
Our culture has a great desire to escape suffering
• We need to understand tho that suffering like everything else, is related to our journey towards God.
• When we escape suffering we may lose a chance to understand something of great importance for ourselves and, consequently, for others.
Suffering can help our relationship with God.
C.S. Lewis wrote that pain is God's megaphone to arouse us from our deafness. It is only when we are afraid or bewildered, aware of our own helplessness, that we turn to God. If we are to be re-made, re-born, turned around, we must be first broken into pieces:
Think of people that have come to Jesus. How did you come to him?
Suffering gets us in touch with our soul
It is the source of great poetry, music, art and the great discoveries of life.It is in sorrow that we can look into ourselves and find God.
Suffering can help our relationships with others
We can only gain from suffering if we use the opportunity to grow in compassion and understanding, to become more sensitive to the needs of others.
Are we here for pleasure, or to care for one another, love one another, and comfort one another?
"Help carry one another's burdens; in that way you will fulfill the law of Christ" (Gal 6:2).
2cor 1:3-
3 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of compassion and the God of all comfort, 4 who comforts us in all our troubles, so that we can comfort those in any trouble with the comfort we ourselves receive from God. 5 For just as we share abundantly in the sufferings of Christ, so also our comfort abounds through Christ. 6 If we are distressed, it is for your comfort and salvation; if we are comforted, it is for your comfort, which produces in you patient endurance of the same sufferings we suffer. 7 And our hope for you is firm, because we know that just as you share in our sufferings, so also you share in our comfort.
That there is some therapeutic value in suffering is obvious. When our own need is great, to whom do we turn? To the person for whom life has always been easy? Or to the one who has been buffeted by more than one storm?
Choices
When do you pray for something to get better and when do you choose to accept it as a part of the world that is yours to deal with?
We cannot choose to not suffer
But we can choose to let tribulation have its work James
Human beings can be carried to the height of redemption only after passing through the valley of despair.
We do not suffer in order to become other than who we are, but to become the real persons lying dormant within us.
It all depends on ourselves. The suffering that produced a Beethoven or a Helen Keller could also produce a snivelling weakling riddled with self-pity.
Two people suffer the same anguish: one is destroyed, the other enriched!
One is caught in one's own turmoil and withers; the other searches more deeply and finds profound meaning –
Woman in the wheelchair
Having broken her neck, she was completely paralyzed, without feeling or skin sensation from the shoulders down. She looked after herself in her own flat (it took her two hours to get dressed), drove across London each day and did a nine to five-thirty job, after which she was too exhausted to do anything but sleep. She rejoiced in her independence, "For me it is the most wonderful and unbelievable thing. Every morning when I wake up, I think, another day! I've made it!" To find hope and joy in the midst of affliction, -- that is the ultimate achievement of faith.
Something amazing about those who have learned not just to endure, but to grow thru suffering…..
Among many of the survivors of the camps, one meets this tremendous inner strength, this indestructible human spirit. Such survivors seem to have passed beyond hatred and bitterness because they saw where the hatred and bitterness led. They are linked together by a powerful bond and mutual compassion. I shall never forget the woman I met in Warsaw at a party for survivors of Auschwitz and Buchenwald. Suddenly she turned to me and said sadly, "I wasn't there; but I wish to God I had been. I'm on the outside. Do you understand?"
found on the body of a dead child at Ravensbruck camp where 92,000 women and children died:
O God, remember not only the men and women of good will, but also those of ill will. But do not remember all the suffering they have inflicted upon us; remember the fruits we have bought, thanks to this suffering -- our comradeship, our loyalty, our humility, our courage, our generosity, the greatness of heart which has grown out of all this, and when they come to the judgment let all the fruits that we have borne be their forgiveness.
Natural responses. Anger, fear, self pity, denial.
All of this is ok, all of this is normal. God is not offended by our humanness.
But he also invites us to aspire to rise above our humanness
The cross points the way
At the centre of all that God is offering us, the cross stands as a commentary -- the historical sign that Jesus fully shared our human situation.
"I, if I be lifted up, will draw all people to myself" (Jn 12:32).
If we stand in spirit at the foot of the cross, we can see that all the sorrow in the world is gathered together into one sorrow; and there, in the moment of seeming utter defeat, the victory over sorrow is complete.
In your suffering I turn you away from your feelings. Away from your self. Away from magical answers to the pain and I turn you toward Jesus. The man of the cross. And together we join hands, one with another……
Wednesday, September 14, 2011
Job Part 2 Friendly Advice Job 4:1-21 09/11/2011
Job 4:1-21 thru 5:1 Job part 2 Sermon title - friendly advice
Job the series
Today - Job gets bad advice
These lines from the bible must be understood in their context
This friend’s msg is –
It’s your fault you’re suffering. - You deserve it. - Implied by
It’s for you own good. - It’ll make you a better person. - Eliphaz in 5:17ff
It’ll pass. Eventually you’ll be fine. - Eliphaz in v. 22
These responses aren’t really about Job, they are about Eliphaz and they hurt.
What is the msg of the other friends
Bildad – your children died because of their sin
You have been evil. Repent and you will be restored
Zophar -you are not as righteous as you think
Turn from evil
Job you are so arrogant that I am upset with your arguments
God will expose your wickedness
Everyone will suffer in their life
The loss of a pet
The loss of a parent
Financial problems, fear, worry, illness
God forbid, the loss of those before their time
I don’t understand life
We don’t like it- we want to understand it
No- we want it to go away
So we human beings tend to look for easy answers
Sometimes we gravitate to charismatic leaders who seem to have all the answers
We want answers
We want them easy
We are uncomfortable with not knowing
We are uncomfortable with being uncomfortable
We all hope for a Christian faith that does not have a cross
We are uncomfortable with the mystery of life. With the mystery of God
Many of us humans are “fixers”. Got a problem? No problem. We got a solution!
Good when you have a flat tire. Good when you have a leak in the roof.
When you are hurting…not so good.
Ministry of Fixing is not always helpful.
Telling can be hurtful.
Denial can be hurtful.
Advising can be hurtful.
Some typical human easy answers…………
Or what not to say
The New York Times, December 7, 1999.
• To a man whose elderly mother died: Oh, well, she was 79.
• To a 60-year-old recent widow: Don't worry. You're young and attractive; you'll find someone else.
• To a woman whose husband died of lung cancer: You have to meet this man. His wife also died of lung cancer.
• To a man whose 26-year-old daughter died of AIDS: If she hadn't been that way, God wouldn't have struck her dead with AIDS, and It was just a purification thing.
• To a woman who suffered a miscarriage: It is probably for the best.
• To a woman whose 25-year-old son was killed: At least you have four other children.
Things that I have personally heard – not helpful
I know how you feel
Don’t cry
Time heals all wounds
God doesn’t put more on us than we can take
it must have been their time/ Everything happens for a reason/It was god’s will
Having said that, here are some things that I say to you now:
DO SAY:
I am sorry
___________ was a good person and friend of mine. I will miss him or her.
We love you we care for you
Tell me how I can help; I want to be here for you
I stand with you.
Engage in The ministry of presence
Ministry of Presence is sometimes (most times) what’s needed.
Silence = just being with the person
I know you want to talk, but its ok, not to…….
Silence acknowledges there aren’t easy answers.
Validation = I love you and I stand with you
acknowledges the sufferers feelings
is not encouraging anyone to wallow in self-pity.
is accepting the sufferer’s response as their response.
Support = offering what’s needed when it’s needed
Is not fixing it -it is not providing your solution.
Support is waiting for the sufferer to ask for help.
engage in the ministry of comfort
God takes a hand whenever he can find it
• The pastor takes someone’s hand to pray for them
• the hand of a doctor to relieve the pain,
• the hand of a mother to guide a child.
• The hand of any of us to comfort to a neighbor.
They’re all hands touched by his Spirit, and his Spirit's everywhere lookin' for hands to use.
Do not doubt the value of your presence, of your touch
The comfort that we deliver – Food – kindness
Understand that your acts of comfort are very very important.
Be there
Hug them
Tell them that you love them and you stand with them
Pray for them
The end –
9-11 remembering prayer time
transition
Ten years ago the worst and best of humanity was revealed. – who do you want to be?
Trust god
Seek to be Resilient. Seek restoration with all of God’s children.
Love your neighbor
This is the message of our faith.
Lets take a few moments now as tom and lisa sing to remember our country, our heroes, those who lost their lives, and our God who comforts and sustains us.
Job the series
Today - Job gets bad advice
These lines from the bible must be understood in their context
This friend’s msg is –
It’s your fault you’re suffering. - You deserve it. - Implied by
It’s for you own good. - It’ll make you a better person. - Eliphaz in 5:17ff
It’ll pass. Eventually you’ll be fine. - Eliphaz in v. 22
These responses aren’t really about Job, they are about Eliphaz and they hurt.
What is the msg of the other friends
Bildad – your children died because of their sin
You have been evil. Repent and you will be restored
Zophar -you are not as righteous as you think
Turn from evil
Job you are so arrogant that I am upset with your arguments
God will expose your wickedness
Everyone will suffer in their life
The loss of a pet
The loss of a parent
Financial problems, fear, worry, illness
God forbid, the loss of those before their time
I don’t understand life
We don’t like it- we want to understand it
No- we want it to go away
So we human beings tend to look for easy answers
Sometimes we gravitate to charismatic leaders who seem to have all the answers
We want answers
We want them easy
We are uncomfortable with not knowing
We are uncomfortable with being uncomfortable
We all hope for a Christian faith that does not have a cross
We are uncomfortable with the mystery of life. With the mystery of God
Many of us humans are “fixers”. Got a problem? No problem. We got a solution!
Good when you have a flat tire. Good when you have a leak in the roof.
When you are hurting…not so good.
Ministry of Fixing is not always helpful.
Telling can be hurtful.
Denial can be hurtful.
Advising can be hurtful.
Some typical human easy answers…………
Or what not to say
The New York Times, December 7, 1999.
• To a man whose elderly mother died: Oh, well, she was 79.
• To a 60-year-old recent widow: Don't worry. You're young and attractive; you'll find someone else.
• To a woman whose husband died of lung cancer: You have to meet this man. His wife also died of lung cancer.
• To a man whose 26-year-old daughter died of AIDS: If she hadn't been that way, God wouldn't have struck her dead with AIDS, and It was just a purification thing.
• To a woman who suffered a miscarriage: It is probably for the best.
• To a woman whose 25-year-old son was killed: At least you have four other children.
Things that I have personally heard – not helpful
I know how you feel
Don’t cry
Time heals all wounds
God doesn’t put more on us than we can take
it must have been their time/ Everything happens for a reason/It was god’s will
Having said that, here are some things that I say to you now:
DO SAY:
I am sorry
___________ was a good person and friend of mine. I will miss him or her.
We love you we care for you
Tell me how I can help; I want to be here for you
I stand with you.
Engage in The ministry of presence
Ministry of Presence is sometimes (most times) what’s needed.
Silence = just being with the person
I know you want to talk, but its ok, not to…….
Silence acknowledges there aren’t easy answers.
Validation = I love you and I stand with you
acknowledges the sufferers feelings
is not encouraging anyone to wallow in self-pity.
is accepting the sufferer’s response as their response.
Support = offering what’s needed when it’s needed
Is not fixing it -it is not providing your solution.
Support is waiting for the sufferer to ask for help.
engage in the ministry of comfort
God takes a hand whenever he can find it
• The pastor takes someone’s hand to pray for them
• the hand of a doctor to relieve the pain,
• the hand of a mother to guide a child.
• The hand of any of us to comfort to a neighbor.
They’re all hands touched by his Spirit, and his Spirit's everywhere lookin' for hands to use.
Do not doubt the value of your presence, of your touch
The comfort that we deliver – Food – kindness
Understand that your acts of comfort are very very important.
Be there
Hug them
Tell them that you love them and you stand with them
Pray for them
The end –
9-11 remembering prayer time
transition
Ten years ago the worst and best of humanity was revealed. – who do you want to be?
Trust god
Seek to be Resilient. Seek restoration with all of God’s children.
Love your neighbor
This is the message of our faith.
Lets take a few moments now as tom and lisa sing to remember our country, our heroes, those who lost their lives, and our God who comforts and sustains us.
Job Series Job 1:1-2 09/04/2011
Sermon 9-4-11 Scripture: Job 1:1-12 Job pt 1 sat 530pm
1 In the land of Uz there lived a man whose name was Job. This man was blameless and upright; he feared God and shunned evil. 2 He had seven sons and three daughters, 3 and he owned seven thousand sheep, three thousand camels, five hundred yoke of oxen and five hundred donkeys, and had a large number of servants. He was the greatest man among all the people of the East.
4 His sons used to take turns holding feasts in their homes, and they would invite their three sisters to eat and drink with them. 5 When a period of feasting had run its course, Job would send and have them purified. Early in the morning he would sacrifice a burnt offering for each of them, thinking, “Perhaps my children have sinned and cursed God in their hearts.” This was Job’s regular custom. 6 One day the angels came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came with them. 7 The LORD said to Satan, “Where have you come from?”
Satan answered the LORD, “From roaming through the earth and going back and forth in it.”
8 Then the LORD said to Satan, “Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil.” 9 “Does Job fear God for nothing?” Satan replied. 10 “Have you not put a hedge around him and his household and everything he has? You have blessed the work of his hands, so that his flocks and herds are spread throughout the land. 11 But stretch out your hand and strike everything he has, and he will surely curse you to your face.”
12 The LORD said to Satan, “Very well, then, everything he has is in your hands, but on the man himself do not lay a finger.”
Then Satan went out from the presence of the LORD.
You can relate – this is our story
Tell the story of job
There are lots of questions that are not what the book is about
although there was a historical job
this story is the oldest story in the bible.
Job is like a parable that jesus told
It has come down thru the years and represents the jewish people’s best response to the problem of evil
Is there really a “heavenly council”?
Does God have advisors?
Does God wager with our lives?
Does god let Satan mess with us?
Can we blame all of this on the devil?
Got to chase it for a minute-
Ha satan – the concept of an adversary – from the lesson in disciple one
Aside: satan = adversary or accuser (not Satan, the devil…a later development) – one who seeks out and accuses those who were disloyal to God. Not God’s adversary, but the adversary of those dishonor God. A subordinate. A member of the divine council. {cf. New Interpreter’s Commentary}
These issues are not the heart of the matter.
We humans tend to get side tracked.
More on this next week –
We ask the wrong questions and look for easy answers
The issue is suffering- why is it here and what do we do with it
Suffering is common to all
Roses have thorns
we all have trouble. We are not promised a rose garden. Suffering is common to man.
Suffering is real and part of what it is to be human, though some suffer far more than others
Any gospel that tells you otherwise is not the gospel of Christ.
Some have adopted this story as a formula. Job is faithful. Job is blessed with God’s favor. Job has great worldly goods. This is the formula for the “Prosperity gospel”. – Prayer of Jabez stuff.
In Christ, there is a cross to bear.
There is a cheek to turn
Shoot the prosperity gospel.
Ask yourself this -Do we only cling to God when we are “blessed”? Is our relationship with God determined by what we get from him? Or Do we remain faithful in the face of suffering?
Types of suffering
Some is natural to humans
Loneliness
Limits
Temptation
Anxiety
Some suffering is self inflicted
Some is brought to us by others
Some suffering just seems to be unexplained
Job didn’t deserve any of the things that happened to him
Hebrews 11
Conclusion
Humans suffer
What ever you are struggling with, God knows and god cares. You can be in pain and suffer or you can be in pain and not suffer.
God is with us in suffering
When we suffer, God also suffers
Suffering is not the last word about the human condition
God will end suffering. – he makes all things beautiful in his time
Life is still good. Trouble will come, trust in god
Trust in God. Trust demands that we do it in difficult times. If we only trust when everything is perfect, where is the trust?
God is trustworthy.
Come unto me all ye who labor and are heavy laden and I will give you rest
Mt 11:28
Cast your cares upon him for he cares for you. 1 peter 5:7
1 In the land of Uz there lived a man whose name was Job. This man was blameless and upright; he feared God and shunned evil. 2 He had seven sons and three daughters, 3 and he owned seven thousand sheep, three thousand camels, five hundred yoke of oxen and five hundred donkeys, and had a large number of servants. He was the greatest man among all the people of the East.
4 His sons used to take turns holding feasts in their homes, and they would invite their three sisters to eat and drink with them. 5 When a period of feasting had run its course, Job would send and have them purified. Early in the morning he would sacrifice a burnt offering for each of them, thinking, “Perhaps my children have sinned and cursed God in their hearts.” This was Job’s regular custom. 6 One day the angels came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came with them. 7 The LORD said to Satan, “Where have you come from?”
Satan answered the LORD, “From roaming through the earth and going back and forth in it.”
8 Then the LORD said to Satan, “Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil.” 9 “Does Job fear God for nothing?” Satan replied. 10 “Have you not put a hedge around him and his household and everything he has? You have blessed the work of his hands, so that his flocks and herds are spread throughout the land. 11 But stretch out your hand and strike everything he has, and he will surely curse you to your face.”
12 The LORD said to Satan, “Very well, then, everything he has is in your hands, but on the man himself do not lay a finger.”
Then Satan went out from the presence of the LORD.
You can relate – this is our story
Tell the story of job
There are lots of questions that are not what the book is about
although there was a historical job
this story is the oldest story in the bible.
Job is like a parable that jesus told
It has come down thru the years and represents the jewish people’s best response to the problem of evil
Is there really a “heavenly council”?
Does God have advisors?
Does God wager with our lives?
Does god let Satan mess with us?
Can we blame all of this on the devil?
Got to chase it for a minute-
Ha satan – the concept of an adversary – from the lesson in disciple one
Aside: satan = adversary or accuser (not Satan, the devil…a later development) – one who seeks out and accuses those who were disloyal to God. Not God’s adversary, but the adversary of those dishonor God. A subordinate. A member of the divine council. {cf. New Interpreter’s Commentary}
These issues are not the heart of the matter.
We humans tend to get side tracked.
More on this next week –
We ask the wrong questions and look for easy answers
The issue is suffering- why is it here and what do we do with it
Suffering is common to all
Roses have thorns
we all have trouble. We are not promised a rose garden. Suffering is common to man.
Suffering is real and part of what it is to be human, though some suffer far more than others
Any gospel that tells you otherwise is not the gospel of Christ.
Some have adopted this story as a formula. Job is faithful. Job is blessed with God’s favor. Job has great worldly goods. This is the formula for the “Prosperity gospel”. – Prayer of Jabez stuff.
In Christ, there is a cross to bear.
There is a cheek to turn
Shoot the prosperity gospel.
Ask yourself this -Do we only cling to God when we are “blessed”? Is our relationship with God determined by what we get from him? Or Do we remain faithful in the face of suffering?
Types of suffering
Some is natural to humans
Loneliness
Limits
Temptation
Anxiety
Some suffering is self inflicted
Some is brought to us by others
Some suffering just seems to be unexplained
Job didn’t deserve any of the things that happened to him
Hebrews 11
Conclusion
Humans suffer
What ever you are struggling with, God knows and god cares. You can be in pain and suffer or you can be in pain and not suffer.
God is with us in suffering
When we suffer, God also suffers
Suffering is not the last word about the human condition
God will end suffering. – he makes all things beautiful in his time
Life is still good. Trouble will come, trust in god
Trust in God. Trust demands that we do it in difficult times. If we only trust when everything is perfect, where is the trust?
God is trustworthy.
Come unto me all ye who labor and are heavy laden and I will give you rest
Mt 11:28
Cast your cares upon him for he cares for you. 1 peter 5:7
Thursday, August 28, 2008
Job Job 1:13-25 9-11-05
Sermon 9-11-05 Job 1:13-25
when Lee Greenwood sang this song, he probably never thought that so many would experience the trial that he described……….
If tomorrow all the things were gone I’d worked for all my life,And I had to start again with just my children and my wife,I’d thank my lucky stars to be living here today,’Cause the flag still stands for freedom and they can’t take that away.I’m proud to be an American ………………
Job
Job had it all, then lost it all
Yet In all things he trusted God
[repeat scripture portion]
“ Naked I came from my mother’s womb, And naked shall I return there.The LORD gave, and the LORD has taken away;Blessed be the name of the LORD.” 22 In all this Job did not sin nor charge God with wrong.
It is bound to happen
Someone wants to blame God [last week on the news]
Comic: Swirling…..Hurricane Katrina
And they call this intelligent design
Presupposes the idea
that life should be a rose garden….bad things should not happen.
This is only possible in a pretend world. In a world where freewill matters, my choices have to mean something.
If God pushes all the buttons, our lives are meaningless
I want you to tell your friends this
You don’t get cancer or hurricaned because God pushed a button.
Sometimes bad things just happen. They are a part of our world
Someone wants to blame the people down there in the south
Mt 5:45 He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.
Are they worse then we are? Are the people In the powerpoint church worse then we are? Were the 9-11 victims worse than we are.
Bad things happen.
God does not give us what we deserve.
If we all got what we deserved, where would we be?
I want you to tell your friends this
You don’t get cancer or hurricaned because you are a bad person.
Bad things happen
Faith teachers are in trouble…their theology doesn’t work in this situation
No matter how good you are you are still going to face trouble in this life
John 16: 33"I have told you these things, so that in me you may have peace. In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world."
Sept 11 was not something God did, it did not happen because the people in NY were bad…it happened because in this case, bad people did bad things
We are not always going to understand why. If we did, then we wouldn’t need God. We are going to live and die with questions about Gods wonderful world.
The story for Christians is not the why, but what now?
What to do now?
You can close the door to caring
Lets take our toilet paper in and then go back to our life as it was
Ocala- homeowners assn wont allow residents to house evacuees
You can choose to be-Angry, bitterness, its not fair
Whether huge hurts as Katrina victims face or our everyday hurts, we have a choice.
We can hold on to anger and it will keep us from focusing on God.
Movie clara’s heart
You don’t have to die for the rest of your life to prove that you were hurt….
Christians have something to give in a time of trouble
This can be a growing point for me… Something to learn…
Someone to help out there, lets rally our hearts
I can choose to not be overcome by evil, but I can over come evil with good – Ro 12:21
No matter what, I can trust God, I can praise him. Take eyes off of circumstances, get my eyes on him
Song-Blessed be the name Blessed be Your name In the land that is plentifulWhere Your streams of abundance flow Blessed be Your name And blessed be Your name When I’m found in the desert place Though I walk through the wilderness Blessed be Your nameBlessed be Your name When the sun’s shining down on me When the world’s all as it should be Blessed be Your nameAnd blessed be Your name On the road marked with suffering Though there’s pain in the offering Blessed be Your name You give and take away You give and take awayMy heart will choose to say Lord blessed be Your name
when Lee Greenwood sang this song, he probably never thought that so many would experience the trial that he described……….
If tomorrow all the things were gone I’d worked for all my life,And I had to start again with just my children and my wife,I’d thank my lucky stars to be living here today,’Cause the flag still stands for freedom and they can’t take that away.I’m proud to be an American ………………
Job
Job had it all, then lost it all
Yet In all things he trusted God
[repeat scripture portion]
“ Naked I came from my mother’s womb, And naked shall I return there.The LORD gave, and the LORD has taken away;Blessed be the name of the LORD.” 22 In all this Job did not sin nor charge God with wrong.
It is bound to happen
Someone wants to blame God [last week on the news]
Comic: Swirling…..Hurricane Katrina
And they call this intelligent design
Presupposes the idea
that life should be a rose garden….bad things should not happen.
This is only possible in a pretend world. In a world where freewill matters, my choices have to mean something.
If God pushes all the buttons, our lives are meaningless
I want you to tell your friends this
You don’t get cancer or hurricaned because God pushed a button.
Sometimes bad things just happen. They are a part of our world
Someone wants to blame the people down there in the south
Mt 5:45 He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.
Are they worse then we are? Are the people In the powerpoint church worse then we are? Were the 9-11 victims worse than we are.
Bad things happen.
God does not give us what we deserve.
If we all got what we deserved, where would we be?
I want you to tell your friends this
You don’t get cancer or hurricaned because you are a bad person.
Bad things happen
Faith teachers are in trouble…their theology doesn’t work in this situation
No matter how good you are you are still going to face trouble in this life
John 16: 33"I have told you these things, so that in me you may have peace. In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world."
Sept 11 was not something God did, it did not happen because the people in NY were bad…it happened because in this case, bad people did bad things
We are not always going to understand why. If we did, then we wouldn’t need God. We are going to live and die with questions about Gods wonderful world.
The story for Christians is not the why, but what now?
What to do now?
You can close the door to caring
Lets take our toilet paper in and then go back to our life as it was
Ocala- homeowners assn wont allow residents to house evacuees
You can choose to be-Angry, bitterness, its not fair
Whether huge hurts as Katrina victims face or our everyday hurts, we have a choice.
We can hold on to anger and it will keep us from focusing on God.
Movie clara’s heart
You don’t have to die for the rest of your life to prove that you were hurt….
Christians have something to give in a time of trouble
This can be a growing point for me… Something to learn…
Someone to help out there, lets rally our hearts
I can choose to not be overcome by evil, but I can over come evil with good – Ro 12:21
No matter what, I can trust God, I can praise him. Take eyes off of circumstances, get my eyes on him
Song-Blessed be the name Blessed be Your name In the land that is plentifulWhere Your streams of abundance flow Blessed be Your name And blessed be Your name When I’m found in the desert place Though I walk through the wilderness Blessed be Your nameBlessed be Your name When the sun’s shining down on me When the world’s all as it should be Blessed be Your nameAnd blessed be Your name On the road marked with suffering Though there’s pain in the offering Blessed be Your name You give and take away You give and take awayMy heart will choose to say Lord blessed be Your name
Tuesday, August 26, 2008
Getting to the Other Side Psalm 25 Job 38 8-31-03
Can you really help me with this
Can I get to the other side
Elijah and the prophets of Baal
Psalm 25
Job 38
A god of our own making
If you can configure him in your head, it is no god
There should always be a mystery
Without mystery there is no worship
Ten commandments locked up in a storage room
Really
Will that stop God…no way
He crashed thru the barriers, he overcomes the hurdles, he spins the galaxies
You made him too small and you keep him small
When God speaks we don’t worry about the answer, we ow the knee
When god speaks, we are no longer in control, we shudder, we seek his face, nothing else
You don’t have to die the rest of your life to prove that you hurt
I saw the grand canyon
1. I was afraid
2. I was in awe, wonder
3. I could only look for so long
4. it was beyond my comprehension
5. the picture remains in my mind
Shannon Odonnell
She was big. No question about it. Size 12 feet. Broad Big Generous Wide
Even her voice was big, her laughter full and rich, capable of filling an auditorium. Some things fit, most didn't. She searched for chairs without arms,
she found ways to be on the edges, not in the center, as if people wouldn't notice. She was big. Bigger than almost anyone she knew. Her hug was huge, two strong arms that could wrap around and hold a person close and be warm, safe, whole. She was a great big pillow to cry into, one that held all the tears until you were done crying. There was a secret the big woman knew, something she didn't tell anyone. She didn't even tell herself very often because it hurt to hear the words. "I'm too big," she'd whisper, "too big for God. Even God doesn't have arms big enough to hold me." And then that great and big and gentle woman would cry. And her tears were just like her- big and gentle and they washed over her face and splashed down into her lap.
Can I get to the other side
Elijah and the prophets of Baal
Psalm 25
Job 38
A god of our own making
If you can configure him in your head, it is no god
There should always be a mystery
Without mystery there is no worship
Ten commandments locked up in a storage room
Really
Will that stop God…no way
He crashed thru the barriers, he overcomes the hurdles, he spins the galaxies
You made him too small and you keep him small
When God speaks we don’t worry about the answer, we ow the knee
When god speaks, we are no longer in control, we shudder, we seek his face, nothing else
You don’t have to die the rest of your life to prove that you hurt
I saw the grand canyon
1. I was afraid
2. I was in awe, wonder
3. I could only look for so long
4. it was beyond my comprehension
5. the picture remains in my mind
Shannon Odonnell
She was big. No question about it. Size 12 feet. Broad Big Generous Wide
Even her voice was big, her laughter full and rich, capable of filling an auditorium. Some things fit, most didn't. She searched for chairs without arms,
she found ways to be on the edges, not in the center, as if people wouldn't notice. She was big. Bigger than almost anyone she knew. Her hug was huge, two strong arms that could wrap around and hold a person close and be warm, safe, whole. She was a great big pillow to cry into, one that held all the tears until you were done crying. There was a secret the big woman knew, something she didn't tell anyone. She didn't even tell herself very often because it hurt to hear the words. "I'm too big," she'd whisper, "too big for God. Even God doesn't have arms big enough to hold me." And then that great and big and gentle woman would cry. And her tears were just like her- big and gentle and they washed over her face and splashed down into her lap.
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